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Legionnaire

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PostSubject: taxes   Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:48 pm

our taxes are effed up.

way more complicated than they need to be, yet not nearly as fair as they should be!!! ive got some ideas that would make them better. and screw the so called "fair tax"!!! thats so much bullshit its not even funny...


ive been thinking about this alot, as im going to file for a tax extension so i can take care of my taxes when i get back from the war, and if i dont get back... TAKE THAT GOVERNMENT!!! mUAhAHAhA. more money for my family... until the government takes out that inheritance tax!!!! argh... stupid oversized, inefficient government bureaucracy...


anyway, ill post some of my scribblings on this topic later. anyone else paying taxes and think they could be done better or am i the only dissident in this house?

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Auctoris

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:21 pm

in my current situation, i find filing my taxes to be really easy. :-) having made practically no money last year certainly helps. It's really simple for me to file electronically using one of the free online services, so I don't really have complaints about filing taxes.

But taxes, like other government ventures get overly complicated and frustrating. I don't think there's anything all that wrong with the basic principle of using tax brackets, and yet there are so many loopholes and random rules that make it lame.


...I don't even know why we have to file our taxes anyway, since the gov't takes it out of our paychecks every month. Then again, I'm still new to the Land of Paying Taxes, so maybe I just don't know.
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:00 am

I don't give myself any exemptions. I know it's ill-advised ("it's like giving the government an interest free loan!"), but it makes my life very simple.

(Legion - don't forget to ctrl+c.)

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:15 am

i enjoy that i make less than $600 a year and have my dad as an accountant. he just shows me the 2 places i need to sign for my taxes:P
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:26 pm

ok here is my idea, based on scribblings of mine over the past couple weeks. and this whole thing came up a few weeks ago for me when i had a discussion with an uncle of mine about the "Fair Tax"... which we both agreed was a load of horse shit.

if youve never heard of the fair tax, google it, and if you think it is truly fair, think about it a little more closely

basically, my idea is similar to the present system, only with 'seamless brackets' and a few other simplifications, to make it more fair in my opinion and more simple.

tax brackets as we have them are crappy because someone who is at the top of their bracket is doing better than someone at the bottom of the bracket beause they make significantly more, yet pay the same tax rate. and if you are at the very top of your bracket, and then make $1 dollar more, you now pay much more in taxes, and would have been significantly better off if youd made merely 1$ less!

instead they should have an equation that you plug your total taxable income into (that is your total income minus deductions) and then it spits out how much you owe based on a gentle curve. simple as that!

and i say a gentle curve because i believe people should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors, tho at the same time bear a larger burden to support the nation (ie pay a little more out of the 'extra' money they make).

the exact nature of the curve can be debated endlessly, but it should at the very least ensure that the rich pay a little more as a proportion of their income as they get richer. the curve, like any graph, would be 'seamless' so that someone makin 51K would pay ever so slightly more as a proportion of their income than someone making 50k, eliminating the unfair nature of the bracket.

a coefficient in the equation would have to be modified every so often to 'slide the curve' over to adjust for inflation so that people are still paying a fair proportion of their income in taxes relative to their income/standard of living. and there may have to be some special rules/modifications to the equation so that the extremely rich arent paying 99% of their income in taxes, which some may think is right but i do not. perhaps a cutoff where never more than 40% or 50% or 60% or whatever (which can be debated endlessly) is payed in taxes for the extremely wealthy, or maybe a seperate formula used all together for those making millions every year. personally, the day the government demands more than half what i make is the day the government can eat shit and die.

also, with the exception of retirement accounts and the like, income should just be considered income as far as tax rate is concerned. regardless of whether its from dividends, capital gains (long or short term), selling collectibles, gambling, inheritance, or from salary (all of which form time to time have had various tax rates that must be calculated separately). this would just simplify the whole mess of paying taxes. to me, income is income and is equally useful and therefore equally taxable regardless on the source of that income. so if you made $100K one year normally after all the applicable deductions had been subtracted out, then won $100k on a game show, and then inherited $100k more from a rich uncle, you should plug $300k into the equation to figure what you owe for taxes that year. simple as that. thats what i think anyway...

good equation roughly equivalent to 2009 tax year brackets:

this equation has the lower and middle classes paying a little less overall than the current brackets, and the upper classes shouldering a little more of the tax burden, as i think it should be.

T=(0.18*x^(1.118))-3

T=amount owed in taxes
x=total taxable income

results:


if you make 15k, your taxrate is 4.78%, and after taxes your income you keep is 14.28k
if you make 20k, your taxrate is 10.63%, and after taxes your income you keep is 17.87k
if you make 30k, your taxrate is 16.89%, and after taxes your income you keep is 24.93k
if you make 60k, your taxrate is 24.18%, and after taxes your income you keep is 45.49k
if you make 120k, your taxrate is 29.17%, and after taxes your income you keep is 85.00k
if you make 400k, your taxrate is 35.75%, and after taxes your income you keep is 257.00k
**if you make 1000k, your taxrate is 40.37%, and after taxes your income you keep is 596.30k



*if you make less than 13k, this formula goes negative.
personally, id have it so that if you made less than 5K you dont pay taxes, and then from 5-15K you pay 4.78% in order to make it worthwhile... or something of the like. in other words, the taxrate for 15k would be the minimum taxrate.

** if i ran the world here abouts $1 million would be a good cutoff for me as far as taxrate. the rare individuals making over $1 million in taxable income in a single year would pay about 40% in taxes.

of course, if i ran the world, the government would be much smller, expense would be much less, and therefor everyone's taxrate would be much lower!


2009 tax bracket for comparison:

10% on income between $0 and $8,350
15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950;
25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250;
28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550;
33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950;
35% on the income over $372,950;

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Last edited by Legionnaire on Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:54 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Legionnaire

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:30 pm

well fuck my table isnt displaying right.... ill work on it

EDIT alright i made it better

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Ikarus

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:44 pm

Why does the government need our money when they have the power to create it? They should just print more bills to act as the tax money.

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Epicurean

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:59 pm

Ikarus wrote:
Why does the government need our money when they have the power to create it? They should just print more bills to act as the tax money.

That reminded me of Germany after WWI when the treaty of Versailles(?) held them responsible for, oh, everything.

Long story short: Printing money lowers its value. But I'm sure you knew that. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:38 pm

[quote="Epicurean"]
Ikarus wrote:
Long story short: Printing money lowers its value. But I'm sure you knew that. Very Happy

Sometimes I think the world would be a better place if we were communist.

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Saint
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:40 pm

Never payed taxes in my life. America just got pwned again! Booyah!

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:03 pm

this is part of our problem. out of control spending, especially on the military:

http://www.counterpunch.org/wheeler01292010.html



aaron, it would depend a lot on the type of communism. are we talking stalinism or native american societies? it would also depend heavily on what you mean by 'better'...




saint, thats insane! what do people normally pay as tax in Belgium? i know in italy most people are payed under the table, so much of the income is invisible to the government and not taxed.

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:55 pm

Hah, I lost my post. I don't like this trend of posting errors on our forum.

I like your plan, JM. It's very thoughtful.

I think military spending should be cut. We could reduce it to a certain degree without risk. You get to a point in spending where that extra billion dollars doesn't provide additional security. But, how hard is it to tell people that without sounding like you hate security?

I don't know about communism, but socialism seems like a good option sometimes. Having the government pay for and provide certain services isn't such a bad thing.
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:25 am

Saint wrote:
Never payed taxes in my life. America just got pwned again! Booyah!

you have come to america...we have sales tax...you've paid american taxes Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:23 am

I mean, we do have taxes. Belgium is not a cheap country either. I just haven't payed taxes directly yet, because they keep enough out of my salary. Causing me to get money back from taxes every year. It's mostly that have the higher salaries, or people that let the government take less money out of their salary.

Living-wise, Belgium is one of the best countries in the world to live. Everybody gets really taken care of. Meaning, when I lose my job I immediately start getting some kind of wellfare from the government. Last time that happened, I was 'earning' about €1000 a month. I love our system. :-)

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:28 pm

Saint wrote:
I mean, we do have taxes. Belgium is not a cheap country either. I just haven't payed taxes directly yet, because they keep enough out of my salary. Causing me to get money back from taxes every year. It's mostly that have the higher salaries, or people that let the government take less money out of their salary.

Living-wise, Belgium is one of the best countries in the world to live. Everybody gets really taken care of. Meaning, when I lose my job I immediately start getting some kind of wellfare from the government. Last time that happened, I was 'earning' about €1000 a month. I love our system. :-)

that's it i'm moving to belgium. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:00 am

It's very important to Americans to be the guy with the big stick. It's my opinion that the "global war on terror" should be a global effort, not just America inserting itself where ever terrorism rears its ugly head in the globe. I think that's another subject entirely, though.

And I can't help but feel that no matter where/how I vote, my money keeps going to things I'd rather it not go to. I mean, we could have national health care, but our terrible (and by terrible I mean awesome) propaganda providers i.e. fox news, has convinced the middle class, vocal red states that instating a national health care system is the first step to socialism/communism/fascism, all different ideologies that are used interchangeably to describe Obama's administration.

The republican party: HELPING SICK PEOPLE IS AGAINST OUR CAUSE.

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:24 am

Saint wrote:
I mean, we do have taxes. Belgium is not a cheap country either. I just haven't payed taxes directly yet, because they keep enough out of my salary. Causing me to get money back from taxes every year. It's mostly that have the higher salaries, or people that let the government take less money out of their salary.

Living-wise, Belgium is one of the best countries in the world to live. Everybody gets really taken care of. Meaning, when I lose my job I immediately start getting some kind of wellfare from the government. Last time that happened, I was 'earning' about €1000 a month. I love our system. :-)

oooooh, i see. so you do pay taxes haha.

yeah they do that in the US too, its called income tax withholding. the thing is, they always take too much, and if you want to get your money back, you have to file your taxes (in the somewhat complicated and unfair way i allude to above, but its not too bad) to show the government how much they owe you back. its half nice cause you get this nice check in the mail, its like free money. only thing is its not free money, its your money that the government stole interest free for up to a year and your just now getting it back. gay.

as for belgium, it would be nice to get 1000 euros for nothing! do yall have any problems of people taking advantage of that tho? i probably would cheers

and how much do they take out of your paycheck, percentage-wise to pay for all that stuff?

Quote :
a national health care system is the first step to socialism/communism/fascism, all different ideologies

haha yeah this always cracks me up. ive seen it a million times at tea bag parties someone will be describing Obama on camera and one second call him a fascist (usually in a deep country drawl, of course...) and the next second theyll be calling him a communist, a diametrically opposed ideology... nice try. might as well say that hes white and then say hes black. wait... bad example... Razz

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:05 am

Of course you have people taking advantage of it.. But they get on your case if you're unemployed for a while and they notice you're not looking for work. They can suspend you and stuff... But all you have to do every now and then is send your resume to companies, so they can see you're looking for work and you can do the wellfare thing for quite some time... I did it for a year, right after school.

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PostSubject: Re: taxes   Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:23 pm

In addition to what JM wrote, I am very much in support of a tax on a sliding scale for any additional children over replacement value (2). It would never happen, mostly because for some reason procreation is a "right" (id argue its a privilege), but it makes so much sense.
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